[drpoomanchu]

I have a B16a2 00 Civic Si I'm looking for 400whp, will the GT-K series apply to me. I'm between this turbo series and the GT line from Garrett. With no compressor maps and these turbos being so new I have nothing to base info on but a pretty turbo... If you can help it would be great... I am looking to purchase in the next month maybe two. I was looking at the 350 and 450. What is your 2cents...... Thanks

[Robert]

Originally Posted by drpoomanchu

I have a B16a2 00 Civic Si I'm looking for 400whp, will the GT-K series apply to me. I'm between this turbo series and the GT line from Garrett. With no compressor maps and these turbos being so new I have nothing to base info on but a pretty turbo... If you can help it would be great... I am looking to purchase in the next month maybe two. I was looking at the 350 and 450. What is your 2cents...... Thanks

For 400 WHP the GT-K 350 or 450 would both suite your needs but I would opt for the GT-K 450 personally as it provides some more head room for the future.

[drpoomanchu]

My engine is 9.0.1 comp instead of stock 10.0.1. It should flow very well. I have a great list of mods that will help make this power. I am curios how the 450 will do w/ a .63 AR on the hot side @8500RPM's this is what I worry about w/ this application. Correct me if I'm wrong but wont the 350 not be enough on the top ??? Im looking for a happy medium to aggressive car that will run good at the drag strip and spool as fast as possible without loosing at 8500Rpm. I dont want a LAGGY B16 to make huge power gains. Basically I want the perfect Powerband......LOL doesnt everyone!. Last but not least, I read allot about SEAL Blow by issues on the old turbonetics. How was this taken care of if it was really an issue......?

[Robert]

Originally Posted by drpoomanchu

My engine is 9.0.1 comp instead of stock 10.0.1. It should flow very well. I have a great list of mods that will help make this power. I am curios how the 450 will do w/ a .63 AR on the hot side @8500RPM's this is what I worry about w/ this application. Correct me if I'm wrong but wont the 350 not be enough on the top ??? Im looking for a happy medium to aggressive car that will run good at the drag strip and spool as fast as possible without loosing at 8500Rpm. I dont want a LAGGY B16 to make huge power gains. Basically I want the perfect Powerband......LOL doesnt everyone!. Last but not least, I read allot about SEAL Blow by issues on the old turbonetics. How was this taken care of if it was really an issue......?

With 1.6L of displacement assuming the bore and stroke are the same I think a F1 Stage 3 with a .63 A/R should work well. We have seen Scion tCs with a Stage 2 non-F1 with a .48 A/R make 400+ WHP at 22 PSI with good spool up. If you want to truely ensure you get the right size turbine housing you can always contact one of the sales/support guys at 805-581-0333 and they can spec out a perfect A/R given all your engine parameters but generally the .63 F1 Stage 3 should work well. In regards to seal issues its all dependent on the application, install., and type of driving done. Generally you can always order your turbo with a watercooled bearing section to prevent any thermal failure of the seals.

[Talonboost]

drpoomanchu, you should take a shot at figuring out how much pressure ratio you need to make 400 fwdhp (460 crank hp - 46 lbs per minute). With a small engine like the B16 you'll probably need about 25psi boost. Pressure ratio to get that would be about 3.0. Take a look at the compressor maps turbonetics has for the TO4E 50 and 60 wheels (on their web site). According to those maps the 60 won't even do a 3.0 PR. At 46 lbs per minute it will do about a 2.7 PR at the very edge of the map. This would be fine for making lots of hp on a bigger engine (less boost - more flow) but I'm not so sure about on the 1.6 liter. Take a look at the TO4E 50 compressor map. Its PR tops at about 3.0 at 46 lbs per minute, actually more pressure than the 60 trim. Maybe these compressor maps are wrong or incomplete. But that's what I see. The new GT-K housings should move the surge line to the left which is good, but I wouldn't expect the top and right side of the map to be much different. I think Turbonetics should design a new high pressure compressor wheel for the GT-K 450. Everything above the GT-K 450 does have a new HP wheel, I think. The GT-K 350 is good as is.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Talonboost

drpoomanchu, you should take a shot at figuring out how much pressure ratio you need to make 400 fwdhp (460 crank hp - 46 lbs per minute). With a small engine like the B16 you'll probably need about 25psi boost. Pressure ratio to get that would be about 3.0. Take a look at the compressor maps turbonetics has for the TO4E 50 and 60 wheels (on their web site). According to those maps the 60 won't even do a 3.0 PR. At 46 lbs per minute it will do about a 2.7 PR at the very edge of the map. This would be fine for making lots of hp on a bigger engine (less boost - more flow) but I'm not so sure about on the 1.6 liter. Take a look at the TO4E 50 compressor map. Its PR tops at about 3.0 at 46 lbs per minute, actually more pressure than the 60 trim. Maybe these compressor maps are wrong or incomplete. But that's what I see. The new GT-K housings should move the surge line to the left which is good, but I wouldn't expect the top and right side of the map to be much different. I think Turbonetics should design a new high pressure compressor wheel for the GT-K 450. Everything above the GT-K 450 does have a new HP wheel, I think. The GT-K 350 is good as is.

You have to keep in mind that displacement and pressure ratio alone don't govern the power potential of a motor at a given pressure ratio. You also need to factor in the Volumetric Efficiency of the motor. This will play a HUGE roll on how much power the motor makes per lb/min of compressor airflow. Don't forget the old formula C.I.D x RPM x .5 x Ve (Volumetric Efficiency)\1728=CFM The Volumetic Efficiency can cause a motor to produce drastically more horsepower per CFM of airflow. For instance the VQ35DE found in the 350Z maintains a over 100% Ve motor. How? Variable cam timing. Its peak Ve is actually just over 105%. This means that per CFM or lb/min of air that motor will make more power then a motor with only 85% Ve all other things remaining equal. The generally accepted factor is 10 HP per PSI of boost. However the VQ35DE at just 8 PSI makes 150 HP more. Thats 18.75 HP per PSI. Almost double the "standard". Part of this is due to turbo and turbo system design and part due to Ve.

[Talonboost]

I don't know about CFM, because CFM doesn't tell you mass. So I think in terms of lbs/minute (mass flow) rather than CFM. Compressor maps use lbs/min anyway so it's good.
I don't think that better Ve lets you make more hp per mass flow. You need a certain mass flow of air for every horsepower and there's not much varying it.
You can get more mass flow 3 ways: More boost, more RPM, more Ve.
If you improve Ve you don't need as much boost to get the same mass flow of air. So the turbo's Pressure Ratio could be lower. Like you say, the Ve is kind of a characteristic of the engine (cylinder head mostly) and its mods.

I think drpoomanchu needs to have an idea how much boost psi he needs to make his hp goal with his engine and intercooler and other mods. This is something that will be characteristic to his motor, so he will need some Honda gurus to get this part of it. From there you figure out about how much pressure ratio you need from the turbo. Then you can begin to look at compressor maps to help pick out a turbo.
If all of the compressors on drpoomanchu's shopping list were clearly capable of 3.2 or more PR, then PR would not be an issue. I just think that 2.7 is a little low, might result in running off the map to get the hp.

[Robert]

Actually CFM is a form of mass air flow. In fact most carbs are rated in CFM and are rated as to their maximum flow potential. Cubic Feet Per Minute can easily be converted to lb/min of air by this equation:

Volume Air Flow conversion:: Mass Flow(lb/min) = 0.0756 x Volume Flow(cfm)

Remember the motor is just an air pump. The more efficiently it can pump air in and out the more horsepower it will make. If one engine can ingest compressed air and utlize it more efficiently then another motor of the same exact parameters but less efficient the first engine will make more horsepower. In fact one of your sentences just furthers more point.

You can get more mass flow 3 ways: More boost, more RPM, more Ve.
If you improve Ve you don't need as much boost to get the same mass flow of air.

This directly agrees with my first post. By increasing the Ve of a motor you are able to achieve the same power levels with less boost pressure. This is equivalent to saying you make more power at the same boost pressure which is equivalent to saying you make more power per PSI of air. Of course PSI is a less then accurate term as the true power is coming from the increased CFM or lb/min of airflow but that additional air flow is a direct correlation to the pressure ratio. In the end I do agree that the OP needs to determine his power levels and establish the air flow ratio of his motor to determine which compressor best suites his needs. One way to at least check the current engines air flow potential/requirement is to calculate the mass flow rate using the first formula I posted and plot the results of it onto a compressor map. This is a principle and method commonly used in many texts that relate to turbochargers and turbo system design. This conversation aside if anyone has not yet read Maximum Boost by Corkey Bell I would HIGHLY recommend that book. It is an excellent guide and reference document for all things related to turbocharging. Although a bit dated its theories and formulas are still useful.

[Boosted-Imports]

Originally Posted by drpoomanchu

I have a B16a2 00 Civic Si I'm looking for 400whp, will the GT-K series apply to me. I'm between this turbo series and the GT line from Garrett. With no compressor maps and these turbos being so new I have nothing to base info on but a pretty turbo... If you can help it would be great... I am looking to purchase in the next month maybe two. I was looking at the 350 and 450. What is your 2cents...... Thanks

Built bottom?Sleeved?Pistons?Rods?
Would you please list your Setup for me. 400hp is not that much on a B-Series.
Running 346whp on my stock B18C4 ( in the US it is B18c1 ) with a Turbonetics T3/T4 S-comp T66 @ just 8psi of boost tuned with hondata s200, RC 750cc.

off topic:
Fully built bottom now. Darton sleeved @ 2000cc, CP Pistons, Pauter Rods and so on.
Want to run 700hp at the top but 500hp daily driven.
Which Turbo is best for my Setup?

Turbonetics T3/T4 T66 BB
Turbonetics GT-K 500
Turbonetics GT-K 550
Turbonetics GT-K 650

Thanks for your help.

btw:
Hi I'm new here
My name is Marian.Im a Honda Tuner in germany...

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Boosted-Imports

Built bottom?Sleeved?Pistons?Rods?
Would you please list your Setup for me. 400hp is not that much on a B-Series.
Running 346whp on my stock B18C4 ( in the US it is B18c1 ) with a Turbonetics T3/T4 S-comp T66 @ just 8psi of boost tuned with hondata s200, RC 750cc.

off topic:
Fully built bottom now. Darton sleeved @ 2000cc, CP Pistons, Pauter Rods and so on.
Want to run 700hp at the top but 500hp daily driven.
Which Turbo is best for my Setup?

Turbonetics T3/T4 T66 BB
Turbonetics GT-K 500
Turbonetics GT-K 550
Turbonetics GT-K 650

Thanks for your help.

btw:
Hi I'm new here
My name is Marian.Im a Honda Tuner in germany...

Based on your power requirement of 700 HP the 650 is the smallest you could go to meet that requirement. The GT-K 650 is an HP66 compressor (upgraded design of the T66) with a T4 F1 P trim wheel which is the new 10 blade taller tip heigth T4 P trim.