[howard coleman]

received the following Private Message at RX7club.com this A M

"Hey howard, still trying to decide on a turbo and I came across this (http://www.full-race.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1841) a twin scroll GT35R. Now, I'm waiting to see the results of your back to back turbo comparison before I purchase anything as I want to see some data for myself.
In my build, I'm looking to have a very broad power band (aiming for ~15 PSI 2500-3300). If I were to go with the twin scroll ball bearing turbo, would I be getting the low end response I'm looking for, or should I just not bother and go with a GT3582R? and where do you think I should expect to see power die off around? I want to have something that carries half strong all the way to 9k but mostly looking for the instant response."

i did a bit of research starting w the link at Full-Race and eventually ended at the turbonetics website which led me to the T forum... my compliments on your forum.

i am a rotary guy... the GT3582r and a journal bearing variant w a real T4 divided backend is very popular w the rotary community. divided pays dividends w the rotary.

since so many run the GT3582r i am always interested in varients and it appears that Turbonetics may offer something interesting, especially w the rotary which places a big value a on larger (than piston) hotside.

the Full Race site does not offer the specs on the F1 wheel... i would like to know the two diameters and just which wheel it is... 54, 57,62?

also i note in the blog section a Turbonetics Billet compressor is mentioned. is that wheel currently available in the general GT35 configuration?

finally, in the next 3 weeks i am conducting something that might be of interest to Turbonetics. i will be conducting what is now a 4 turbo comparision. i say comparison rather than dyno test as i will be generating lots more data than just top tick hp. i log exhaust back pressure, two (one for each rotor) pre-turbo EGTs, along w all the other usual data. all on the same motor, all in one (multi day) session. i have a modular downpipe to adapt to all four (T4 divided) turbos as well as two new properly fixtured intercoolers.

i will be comparing a Garrett GT3582r, a Garrett (via ATP) GT3574 (journal bearing, T4 diivided w a P trim turbine), a Borg Warner S300s 63 mm ind, and a GT4094r. all T4, all w V band exhaust, all divided.

if Turbonetics had any interest i would be especially interested in evaluating their best GT35 iteration. there, IMO, is not as much talk as there probably should be on Turbonetics offerings and my dyno thread already has over 13,000 reads. i wouldn't be looking to own the turbo, just evaluate it and return it.

here's the link to the evaluation thread... separating fiction from reality... a couple of days on the DYNO - RX7Club.com

page 6, post 141 show some of the hardware generated to do the comparo.

finally, the test will be done 100% objectively. i have zero economic interest in the outcome.

i am delighted to join the Turbonetics forum and a big hello to all.

BTW, a rotary requires 1.92 CFM to make one rwhp...

howard coleman

[Robert]

Originally Posted by howard coleman

received the following Private Message at RX7club.com this A M

"Hey howard, still trying to decide on a turbo and I came across this (http://www.full-race.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1841) a twin scroll GT35R. Now, I'm waiting to see the results of your back to back turbo comparison before I purchase anything as I want to see some data for myself.
In my build, I'm looking to have a very broad power band (aiming for ~15 PSI 2500-3300). If I were to go with the twin scroll ball bearing turbo, would I be getting the low end response I'm looking for, or should I just not bother and go with a GT3582R? and where do you think I should expect to see power die off around? I want to have something that carries half strong all the way to 9k but mostly looking for the instant response."

i did a bit of research starting w the link at Full-Race and eventually ended at the turbonetics website which led me to the T forum... my compliments on your forum.

i am a rotary guy... the GT3582r and a journal bearing variant w a real T4 divided backend is very popular w the rotary community. divided pays dividends w the rotary.

since so many run the GT3582r i am always interested in varients and it appears that Turbonetics may offer something interesting, especially w the rotary which places a big value a on larger (than piston) hotside.

the Full Race site does not offer the specs on the F1 wheel... i would like to know the two diameters and just which wheel it is... 54, 57,62?

also i note in the blog section a Turbonetics Billet compressor is mentioned. is that wheel currently available in the general GT35 configuration?

finally, in the next 3 weeks i am conducting something that might be of interest to Turbonetics. i will be conducting what is now a 4 turbo comparision. i say comparison rather than dyno test as i will be generating lots more data than just top tick hp. i log exhaust back pressure, two (one for each rotor) pre-turbo EGTs, along w all the other usual data. all on the same motor, all in one (multi day) session. i have a modular downpipe to adapt to all four (T4 divided) turbos as well as two new properly fixtured intercoolers.

i will be comparing a Garrett GT3582r, a Garrett (via ATP) GT3574 (journal bearing, T4 diivided w a P trim turbine), a Borg Warner S300s 63 mm ind, and a GT4094r. all T4, all w V band exhaust, all divided.

if Turbonetics had any interest i would be especially interested in evaluating their best GT35 iteration. there, IMO, is not as much talk as there probably should be on Turbonetics offerings and my dyno thread already has over 13,000 reads. i wouldn't be looking to own the turbo, just evaluate it and return it.

here's the link to the evaluation thread... separating fiction from reality... a couple of days on the DYNO - RX7Club.com

page 6, post 141 show some of the hardware generated to do the comparo.

finally, the test will be done 100% objectively. i have zero economic interest in the outcome.

i am delighted to join the Turbonetics forum and a big hello to all.

BTW, a rotary requires 1.92 CFM to make one rwhp...

howard coleman

Howard,
First let me welcome you to the forums. I hope you'll find the info and support here valuable. I'll start with the second part of your post as that is easier to manage for me. I have contacted the sales support manager at Turbonetics and let him know about the post and the test. He should be posting here or contacting you shortly about that request. Now on to my favorite part the tech. Essentially the Full Race unit was a hybrid set up. It was the compressor side of a Turbonetics GT-K 550 with the turbine side of a GT-K 650. That means a 61mm compressor wheel in the GT-K ported compressor housing with an F1-65 turbine wheel (65mm) in a T4 tangential divided housing. The A/R was either .70 or .84. The F1 wheels (as you'll find on this site) are a taller tip height 10 blade Iconel turbine wheel with great flow potential. The GTK61 compressor wheel is a 61mm compressor wheel created using HIP treated 354 aluminum. This unit also uses the Turbonetics Ceramic Ball Bearing center section. I checked out the link you sent and there didn't seem to be too much info on there but I did confirm this can be ordered through any authorized Turbonetics vendor. As for power potential the 61mm wheel can flow to about 62 lb/min of air at the top end of the efficiency island. Any other info I missed that you were looking for?

[howard coleman]

thanks for the info.

what are the other two dimensions for the hot and cold wheels?

the GT3582 is 61.4 X 82 cold

a P trim turbine wheel is 64.6 X 74.2

i realise your hotside wheel carries a different profile but am just wondering what i am dealing with sizewise.

also, the 65 T4 is only .68? rotaries really need larger A/Rs. the GT3574 has a .84 and the S300 has a 1.00. would it be possible to get the .96?

[Robert]

Originally Posted by howard coleman

thanks for the info.

what are the other two dimensions for the hot and cold wheels?

the GT3582 is 61.4 X 82 cold

a P trim turbine wheel is 64.6 X 74.2

i realise your hotside wheel carries a different profile but am just wondering what i am dealing with sizewise.

also, the 65 T4 is only .68? rotaries really need larger A/Rs. the GT3574 has a .84 and the S300 has a 1.00. would it be possible to get the .96?

The turbine housing A/R can be ordered as a .84 tangential divided as I mentioned above. I'll post the major diameters as soon as I get back to my laptop

[Robert]

The GTK61 compressor wheel is:
2.418" inducer, 3.228" Major

The F1-65 turbine wheel is: 2.559" Exducer and 2.920" Major

[howard coleman]

it is really nice to be able to get questions answered. thanks Robert and Turbonetics.

based on the above numbers it appears that this Turbonetics offering is very close to a GT3582r with a "P" trim wheel.

this setup should pay dividends since the average area of the turbine wheel is 5.92 sq inches versus the typical GT3582r at 5.171 sq inches.

this brings the relationship up from 80.9% to 92.6% in relationship to cold area.

an iteration of the GT3582r is the GT3574 which i am testing in my dyno project. this is a GT3582r w a .84 divided T4 Ptrim wheel w a journal bearing.

it would appear the Turbonetics version of the GT3574 has some advantages, perhaps one of the key items would be significantly enhanced thrust load capability, not an insignificant item. another item of comparative interest would be the Turbonetics anti surge cover. and, of course, the enhanced hotside blade profile should not be overlooked.

i have been a fan of the GT3574 due to it's 14% larger turbine wheel which is especially welcome on the GT3582r since it's hotside is smallish for the rotary.

i think the F1 GT35r might find a home on the rotary.

howard

[Robert]

Originally Posted by howard coleman

it is really nice to be able to get questions answered. thanks Robert and Turbonetics.

based on the above numbers it appears that this Turbonetics offering is very close to a GT3582r with a "P" trim wheel.

this setup should pay dividends since the average area of the turbine wheel is 5.92 sq inches versus the typical GT3582r at 5.171 sq inches.

this brings the relationship up from 80.9% to 92.6% in relationship to cold area.

an iteration of the GT3582r is the GT3574 which i am testing in my dyno project. this is a GT3582r w a .84 divided T4 Ptrim wheel w a journal bearing.

it would appear the Turbonetics version of the GT3574 has some advantages, perhaps one of the key items would be significantly enhanced thrust load capability, not an insignificant item. another item of comparative interest would be the Turbonetics anti surge cover. and, of course, the enhanced hotside blade profile should not be overlooked.

i have been a fan of the GT3574 due to it's 14% larger turbine wheel which is especially welcome on the GT3582r since it's hotside is smallish for the rotary.

i think the F1 GT35r might find a home on the rotary.

howard

Howard,
I'm glad I could help get you the info you were looking for. If there's anything else I can do to help let me know.